Parent Journey: Prince & Heidi Sabena (Part 2)
Description
In today’s episode, we continue Prince and Heidi’s parent journey with their daughter, Ruby while living in Africa. We come to the resolution of their breastfeeding journey and how they finally got help and sought the answers they needed.
Jacqueline discusses the dynamic between Prince & Heidi, their marriage, and their journey as co-parents going through this entire process together. Prince tells his perspective on the entire process and balancing breastfeeding and formula. The couple also looks back on the entire process.
In today's show we discuss:
- Researching options for surgery and recovery therapy
- Coming to terms with what needs to be done for Ruby
- Moving through Ruby’s surgery and post-op
- Therapy, stretches, and recovery
- How Ruby is doing today and looking back on their experience
- Moving through balancing formula and breastfeeding
00:00:03 Jacqueline Kincer
Hi, I'm Jacqueline Kincer and for the past five years I've been helping families all around the globe to overcome their breastfeeding challenges and this is the first non clinical breastfeeding podcast that shows you how to rock breastfeeding and master motherhood through practical tips, mindset shifts and honest conversation to create a confident and empowering breastfeeding journey. This is the Breastfeeding talk podcast.
00:00:38 Jacqueline Kincer
Welcome back to breastfeeding talk. I'm your host, Jacqueline Kincer, and today's episode is Part 2 of Prince and Heidi Sabinas's parenting and Breastfeeding journey. And in Part 1, we heard a lot of the issues that Heidi had encountered with trying to nurse Ruby and provide breast milk for her. And Part 2, we're going to be talking about the resolution of things, how they finally got help and sought the answers they needed for their daughter Ruby and all of those steps that they took to get her the care they needed and what that journey was like. And then we're actually going to be diving into a bit of the dynamic between Prince and her. Their relationship, their marriage, their journey as Co parents going through this whole process with their infant, and you'll hear how things have worked out for them and Ruby and where things are at today. So I promise the story does have a happy ending and there's a lot of great information here. If you didn't have your partner listen to Part 1 of this episode. I think that's OK. I would absolutely encourage you to share Part 2 of this episode. With them. But if you share Part 2 and they don't have a lot of context for what's going on, I would share Part 1 and Part 2 this episode, because there's just a lot of gems that are thrown in and out of the episode, kind of sprinkled throughout just about marriage and Co parenting and being a family of five because they have three children total. So I just love these episodes and I hope you love them as much as I do. Let's get listening.
00:02:09 Heidi Sabena
Yeah, I think I started researching, going to America and then. You did because I remember you sent me a message about we're thinking of traveling there cause I think to me it sounded like you thought weaning from breastfeeding was going to fix it and she would be OK, but she still wasn't. Because all of these things. You're saying and so that's when you felt like, you know, and so you were asking me, who would I recommend in the US, and I don't know if you asked me about anybody on the African continent. But I said I I had had a lactation consultant from South Africa on my podcast. So I reached out to her and was trying to give you a closer option, especially with. Of raging pandemic going on in travel restrictions. So I do remember you reaching out. I think at the beginning of that process of you both looking for something outside of your country.
00:03:02 Heidi Sabena
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And you had sent me somebody. Doctor Michelle Long in Cape Town and at that same like I don't know if it was the day. Before something we had just also received.
00:03:16 Prince Sabena
Yeah, well, we had. I talked cause I looked at I found Kromboom dental online and we found this dental hygienist.
00:03:25 Heidi Sabena
Here's a myofunctional therapist.
00:03:26 Prince Sabena
Yeah. And then we scheduled a zoom. Then she after she. I didn't realize that you had already referred to her doctor Michelle Long. And then this dental hygiene is on our zoom call mentions Dr. Michelle Long as well.
00:03:40 Heidi Sabena
Yeah. And so we just felt like, OK, well, that might just be so much easier than going back during COVID and just the the amount of time to it takes us to get from here to America and then just. All the restrictions and then just build the insurance and the cost and all of that. And so we began to look into this in South Africa and so we then had a zoom meeting with Doctor Michelle Long. She's an ENT in Cape Town and she was just fantastic. I mean, she looked at all the videos that we had taken with. You. And now she is interesting enough. She's like, I'm still kind of new on this whole tongue tie thing, she said. I think that sometimes. People make it seem like every problem we have in our body is due to a tongue tie. So I think the pendulum is kind of shifting a little far, she said. I think if you never get anything done, Ruby will be fine. Like she will make it through. But I also think she could really benefit from getting this. That to me, yeah. We then talked to some other people. Uh, some other doctors and ENT's in Cape. Down and just really found that actually she almost seems to be like one of the only ones that are doing it. But the drawback is that that South Africa and the whole nation of South Africa, they do not have a CO2 laser and the CO2 laser is just something that they are really wanting to raise money for and really get one. Because that makes the procedure so much faster and easier and less invasive. But with her techniques, she said. If they're very young, I will just do it without general anesthesia, but once they reach about 5-6 months, I really. It's hard for me to do it. Well, because they. Can they're stronger and they can push back more and also just their memory and just the trauma of that. So she said I would want to put Ruby under general anesthesia and that sent me into a tailspin. I did not want to do that. And I was so fearful. And so we really sat on it. For like a month and even really up close to the time that we traveled, I was still very fearful. But I understood why and I guess you know, they just really assured me that we were going to be working with an excellent pediatric. Anesthesiologist it was a whole pediatric anesthesiologist, like Anesthesiology team. And just this lady came very highly recommended to us and we just started thinking like I guess, you know, babies do come out and have heart surgeries and they have different surgeries where they do have to be put under general anesthesia. And that's why these pediatric doctors are trained that way. And we wanted them to do the best. It was like, if we're gonna do this, we want you to do it right. And if that means she needs to be put under, then that's just what we're going to have to Too. So we decided to move forward and she was five months old and we flew to Cape Town. But one of the things is that they recommended was and I loved this. I felt like this was really a confirmation to me because I had studied so much that your posts are always saying don't think that just getting the tongue clipped or the upper lip. That is gonna solve everything. You must have like a whole teamwork approach. It has to start first with your lactation consult. And then you need to work with your pediatrician. Then there needs to be a therapist, a physical therapist, or a cranial sacral therapist. Then there needs to be the surgery, and then there needs to be therapy afterwards. And it's a whole long process. But you must do that therapy if you want to have a successful surgery and. You know outcome and so that was something that they recommended, Doctor Michelle Long, Shelley said. You know, I want you to meet with this cranial sacral therapist. She's a pediatric. She works with all these. Babies, I want you to. With her a few times before the surgery, I'm just learning different exercises, beginning the exercises. Then you'll come and have the surgery with me and it's just, you know, literally a 5 minute procedure and then and then I want you to see this therapist for two weeks afterwards after the post op. And then you'll meet with me.
00:07:47 Prince Sabena
And even had we had to do some of those before we went right.
00:07:50 Heidi Sabena
Yes. Yeah. So we were already working with the cranial sacral therapist. Her name was Angela Buck. She's fabulous. She's just. It's Wonderful. I don't know. She just really studying so hard and has worked with so many people, so many babies and moms and families. And just she just wants to keep getting better and better to be able to really offer and provide great care for families that are struggling with the tongue tie and all different things. So we had the surgery. We met with the therapist. We were doing the exercises, then we had the surgery and I tell you what, like we were just so impressed with the surgeon. She's just fantastic. So if there's anyone that you end up referring like. They can talk to us. Yeah, she's just great. We would go to her every time, yeah.
00:08:38 Jacqueline Kincer
That's the job. You can help it. That's the best, right? Because you know, it's a scary thing. This is your little baby. You want to make sure she's in the right hands. And it sounds like you did find such an excellent, excellent option.
00:08:52 Heidi Sabena
Yeah. And you're going to a country. You don't. We knew not a soul there. So we. OK.
00:08:57 Jacqueline Kincer
You're just.
00:08:58 Heidi Sabena
I mean through a lot of prayer and just, you know, those checkpoints of check wanting to know, are they saying the right things? Are they, you know, and just having that first the the dental hygienist recommending so highly. And then just talking with the therapist. She was so. Just loves Doctor Michelle long. Yeah, so she did the surgery. She was just so attentive to us. We met with her beforehand, and then just was on call all the time. Just really so thoughtful. She's just.
00:09:24 Prince Sabena
Yeah.
00:09:28 Heidi Sabena
A a young. Woman who has, you know, a child herself. And so she just was so sensitive to our situation and just, you know, being parents and a mom and all of that. And then it was amazing. Like, as soon as she had the surgery. We were not prepared for the post OP. We didn't know that coming out of general anesthesia she would cry. So, much like on billable crying.
00:09:53 Jacqueline Kincer
No.
00:09:55 Prince Sabena
It was horrible.
00:09:56 Heidi Sabena
And just, you know, being in pain and all of that. So it was, you know, it's pretty traumatic like she was pretty swollen that first day. We could only feed her with a syringe. It just her trying to figure out why is this tongue moving this way when it couldn't even reach to like, you know, her lower Ridge?
00:10:03 Prince Sabena
That first days, yeah.
00:10:17 Heidi Sabena
Now it's moving. She didn't know what? To do with. It and that was pretty traumatic, I would say, but her.
00:10:22 Jacqueline Kincer
Did she do sutures in Rudy's mouth also?
00:10:26 Heidi Sabena
Yes.
00:10:26 Prince Sabena
She did some chores, yeah.
00:10:27 Jacqueline Kincer
She did sutures.
00:10:28 Heidi Sabena
Up on the. Upper she did the upper lip tie and the lower posterior tongue tie and did sutures in both, and that was wonderful because they said because the sutures are there, we don't have to be as tense. About the reattachment, that's really gonna help with that. And so you can that I was so worried about reattachment and they just were like, This is why we do this and that will. You don't have to worry about that. It gives you that time and even didn't have to go in like immediately. You know, we went the next day. They were like, don't do any stretching. Don't do any of that. Just give her time and then come in and see the cranial sacral therapist. And then she'll teach you. And she progressively gave us. Each time we went, we had new exercises to. Progressively get more movement and you know more stretching so it. Was just a really. Beautiful like gentle, gradual process, but one one thing we noticed was her. Neck.
00:11:24 Prince Sabena
Yeah, alright. It was like.
00:11:25 Heidi Sabena
She her neck grew an.00:11:26 Prince Sabena
Inch. Yeah, it's like. She, she, you. You. Could see her. Her. Yeah, just her body.
00:11:30 Heidi Sabena
It was like she had the tension.
00:11:35 Prince Sabena
Her posture looked different. She could hold up her neck better. Her continents change. Yeah, you could definitely see, like, all of a sudden it. Seemed. Like like the world had opened up to her. I I remember saying it's almost like personality is finally coming out. It's like this whole time she's just been so tight and miserable and you don't really know who this baby is. And it's like as soon as the surgery was done two days later, you could see the, I mean, right away, you could see the difference. But two days later, really, you could see the.
00:11:55 Heidi Sabena
Everything is tight.
00:12:10 Prince Sabena
Slowly coming out.
00:12:12 Heidi Sabena
And it was weird because she would cry. But on the other hand, she was a very silent baby. Yeah. And as soon as the tongue was released, she started being so loud and just crying differently, not just screaming in pain, but just crying like a normal baby. Before it was like she was silent. Other than just the screaming. Of the the acid reflux.
00:12:32 Prince Sabena
Yeah, I should.
00:12:34 Jacqueline Kincer
And did she? Did she start babbling and things like that too? Yeah.
00:12:38 Heidi Sabena
She's talking. She started. I mean, she. Was able to like sit. Up then, I think she's starting to sit up. More because she was now five months.
00:12:46 Prince Sabena
Yeah.
00:12:47 Heidi Sabena
She came into six month. Yeah, seemed to like, he said. I think. That's a beautiful way to. Say it like. It's like we finally got to see her personality. Coming out and see. Who she was? Yeah, it. Was crazy. Literally like it felt. Like that tie, I I think it went down. To the tip of. Her toes. You know what I mean? Like this, that tension and just getting the therapy. I mean, Angela. She just hated that therapy. But Angela just did such a beautiful job and just each time she would just get more movement and more flexible and just. Yeah, like, she seemed to be comfortable, which was so encouraging to us.
00:13:25 Jacqueline Kincer
That's amazing. I love that you got to see and witness these big shifts for her because of the treatment you were getting her. So I always tell parents that's how you know, it was the right thing because nothing else was getting those changes, right.
00:13:42 Heidi Sabena
Yeah. And I was terrified, to be honest, with how tight. She was and her tongue being tied. I I was terrified to feed her. I thought this girl is just gonna choke to death because if she can't move, if she can't move her tongue around, how is she gonna move food? You know, like we're doing OK? Barely with with formula with. With a liquid, what are we going to do with a solid? And so that was really helpful with Angela, our therapist, I mean, she said part of her therapy is that I want you to do baby LED. Meaning none of these purees. I want you to give her things. That's going to help her move her tongue to learn. That's the therapy to move her tongue in different directions. Learning how to swallow and how to gag and. How to move food? Out so she doesn't. Talk and just to begin to do that. So as you. Know we were doing the stretches we would do. The all the exercises for six weeks we did. It, but by then then she was starting to eat food and she was just, you know, chewing on a pork bone or, you know, like sucking on things and just by then, she was just getting, you know, we couldn't do exercises. Getting more, she was just getting too strong, but at that point, like it was fine and there was no reattachment. So Doctor Shelley Long had said, like, I want you guys to call me back in three months and just tell me like if you had to do it all over again. Do you think it was worth it? Like as a surgeon? Like, I want to know. Did it really make a difference? Because you know, I'm still, I'm doing these, but I'm. I think it's true, but I still am a little on the I'm learning and I'm on. So you know, I'm not totally 100% on the bandwagoning and I think where we're at today, she's now 11 months. Like she has such a. High palette. Her palette is just. I mean, we we take her to a chiropractor, Zaynab, the myofunctional therapist, was just like this palette. It's just like, so, so incredibly high and narrow. So she's still, though. She can move her tongue around. She still clicks on the bottle and not as much. It's reduced and her feeding is faster, but it's still I think it's. That is as. Little slow and. Labored compared to like what? Another baby that might have a more. Like a flat, narrow palette. Because you know, I mean, with breastfeeding, they meet in the tongue being released. They need that to push up on the palate to move those bones to be able. To make that tight seal. But she can't, no matter how much she can lift her. Tongue. Her palate is still so deep and high she can't make a seal and seal that off. So I think we're still headed in you. Know to braces or You know all of that like. She first, but I her quality of life and just being able to eat. I mean, she's a fantastic eater and I think one other thing I want to say to moms who are terrified of maybe they've watched so many Instagram stories and reels and lactation consultants that maybe aren't the best, like or just other moms. And you know, all the the mom chatter.
00:16:24 Jacqueline Kincer
For sure.
00:16:43 Heidi Sabena
On Instagram and stuff, just being afraid that their baby might not bond with them like. To be honest, I breastfed Naomi and Hannah, but Ruby is my most bonded child ever and I I just think that's God's kindness.
00:16:58 Jacqueline Kincer
We won't. We won't tell them. We'll. We'll just keep it a secret. Yes.
00:17:02 Heidi Sabena
But I mean, Ruby is like. Obsessed. I have never had a baby so obsessed with me as I have with Ruby. And you know, with doing the bottle feeding, you're still holding them like I couldn't see that in my, you know, postpartum fog and depression and just.
00:17:08 Jacqueline Kincer
Oh.
00:17:19 Heidi Sabena
Sadness like. I I couldn't see that. No, you're still gonna hold her. You're still. Gonna feed her. With that bottle, you're still gonna snuggle. Like. There is so much snuggling that happens, even if it isn't at the breast and she still loves to be close and you know, I get to smell her hair and her neck and I get to giving, yeah, giving her a bath and just you're so close. And so to not be afraid that if that is your journey, like the formula is not your enemy.
00:17:36 Prince Sabena
Bring her back.
00:17:48 Heidi Sabena
And you will still have a beautiful relationship with your child and you know, we like, think about me. Who? I'm 40. I'm almost 45. Like I had formula all those years ago. Ohh and I'm I'm a healthy person and think about the the way they formulate it now. Like I know that we just had that recent scare. But like this?
00:18:07 Jacqueline Kincer
And I was going to say I think formula these days is way better than when you were a baby. So if that gives you know, you, you still turned out. OK. But we've got even better formula now. Exactly. Exactly. And and formula is just like one part of your, you know diet for your whole lifetime. Right. You have all these other years of different foods.
00:18:12 Heidi Sabena
Yeah. So. Yeah. So, you know, she's a customer. Everything, but when you're wanting so much because you just hear only that breast milk has all the benefits, there is this feeling of that formula is. Like horrible. And I just think that's, you know, not true. Like, I think moms need to know that. But if you can breastfeed, that's beautiful. If you want to choose to do pumping, that's great. And I just, I appreciate that about you so much. Like how you just did a real recently where you're like, I don't give a you know. Yeah, like, I don't care. Like, if you cannot breastfeed, it's it's fine, really. It's OK. But I'm here if you want help. And and I can support you on that. But if it's not gonna be where you can go, that's OK too. And I think that's just. You're just so gracious. I really appreciate that. We've become friends through this and that. He walked me through and our family, through a kind of a very. Confusing, tumultuous time. But you were just so steady, and that's why I had to, you know, write to you like I I know. I blew up your phone with these long messages. But I. Finally, I just. Thought she's probably thinking we're done. Like you had a tongue tie release. Like we're done. Like our our session has ended, but I just had to call you and that's how this kind of came up to do the. Broadcast. To say thank you so much, like thank you for helping us and being the first person to pinpoint that and to really validate, you know, what we were thinking was wrong and wondering if that. Was what was. Wrong that she did have this tongue tied and just because it's a new thing for people doesn't mean it hasn't. Always existed, you know and. I'm just so thankful for your expertise and how much you study and are constantly trying to better yourself and that so thank you for letting us share our story. I hope it's been helpful and absolutely.
00:20:14 Prince Sabena
I think the experience made us more knowledge. People. And we've been able to help other people, you know, like your cousin was recently, you know, she gave birth and.
00:20:25 Heidi Sabena
In February.
00:20:25 Prince Sabena
In February and her son had a tongue tie and. It was helpful for us to be able to share with her. Experience and and catch. It early and deal with it early and think she's in the US so it's much easier to deal with there and I actually don't know what she's doing now, but. It was just helpful to have that information and I think even just our feeding, like the feeding experience change so much that we used to have to sit her upright to feed her. And as soon as we get the surgery, we didn't. Have to do that anymore? Yeah.
00:20:57 Heidi Sabena
And we didn't have. To have the Davis done anymore.
00:20:59 Prince Sabena
We have to the garbage gone anymore.
00:21:01 Heidi Sabena
Like immediately get changed.
00:21:02 Prince Sabena
Yeah, immediately. And yeah, you know.
00:21:03 Jacqueline Kincer
So she doesn't spit up anymore.
00:21:05 Prince Sabena
She doesn't speed up anymore. We don't prop her up in bed as we used to anymore. Like, there's so many things that we don't even realize that we forgotten now, that changed so much and it's like.
00:21:13 Heidi Sabena
We forgot.
00:21:17 Prince Sabena
Now we could I could go to work and not worry about. You know, I've left my wife behind. And how I'm gonna find her when I come back. And so it's just I think it really improved the quality of life as a family.
00:21:32 Jacqueline Kincer
Wow, that's powerful. I was just gonna ask you, you know what? If you had seen those symptoms? Resolve and I just kind of wanted to do like a a quick little round of a few questions to wrap this up with you guys. I love what you said about, you know, letting go of because there's this messaging about breast milk and breastfeeding. It's a fact that there's a lot of wonderful things in there and it's this food that our bodies are supposed to make for our babies. It's hard to balance that message with formula and acceptance of that. And you know, you don't want to. Discourage anyone from breastfeeding if they want to, and if it's possible, but you don't want to demonize formula, so I know there's a lot of professionals that listen to the podcast. What is your advice for them when they're talking to their own patients or if they're sharing messaging on social? Media regarding that issue, like what would you say is something that you benefit from hearing from people that are talking about that topic? I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but I always want to know like how can we better help parents? Who are dealing with infant feeding and trying to balance breastfeeding and formula?
00:22:58 Prince Sabena
Well, I think if we went. Back to do this all over again. We would still. Want to breastfeed? So I think breastfeeding is is great and it's something that should be encouraged, but sometimes circumstances don't allow it. Different things you know, as we've seen with our case, you know you have a a baby who's born. Maturely, whatever the different issues come up and I think that, I think what I've learned from the experience is there needs to be room in communicating, especially communicating to moms, that this is the best option, but. It may not always. You may not always have that option for you, and it's OK if that option is not available because there is another option. It's the second best option you know.
00:23:47 Heidi Sabena
So and that your baby's gonna be fine like. Yeah, I love that too. Because I do think it's important like it. Is if you're able. You know some moms, it's just they're. Not able to do breastfeeding. Or it. Just, you know, just gives them the willies, you know? It just gives them the creeps to do that. Like they just know. That they might get. Like, just really too emotional with that. Or like whatever reason. But I do think that doctors, you know, that can encourage you and say, like, how can you are if you are able like we would encourage you to breastfeed. It's just so has so many health benefits.
00:24:19 Jacqueline Kincer
For your.
00:24:20 Heidi Sabena
And how can we help you with that? But if it's, you know, not working out well like that, they would help them to know. Yeah, that it's not gonna their baby's gonna grow and their baby's gonna be healthy and just fine with formula because I think you're afraid like that. They're gonna like not get good brain development or their body. I don't know what I thought.
00:24:40 Prince Sabena
Like, yeah, I I think for my that is from what I observed is for moms it's so the success. For a mom is defined. And by the ability to breastfeed and breastfeed. Well and long enough. And that has I, I believe from, you know, from what my wife tells me. I think that comes from the message that is out there, that is, that is very popular. And so by the time you have your baby. You want to be successful. And so, but you've already defined what success is. It has to be breastfeeding and it has to be a very long. You know, she wanted breastfeed for a year, which is wonderful, but that's the that that was the standard. And so for her, the fear was I'm not going even before Ruby was born. You could see the fear in her eyes that I'm this may not work out. I this is this is a challenge. I cannot fail. And then it didn't work out and I felt bad for her. But it's almost like she had set herself up for this failure. And yet it's not a failure. So I think for me it's it's helping moms understand. What does success look like for a for a mom? Is it breastfeeding? And really ultimately now that we are now where we are, you realize, you know, success is using the knowledge you have at that point. And making the best decision in Canada at at that moment with the resources you have, because all those things. Dictate what you can do and what you can't do. You know. And for highly that's where you have to get to to realize I've used the resources, I have the knowledge I have and where I come to, I've given my best and what I have is formula and I'm gonna do that. Not because I don't want to. Do the others. But I don't have that option.
00:26:40 Heidi Sabena
I had tried everything too like I mean, I was on your the holistic lactation milk. I'm sorry. Totally blank, but like, to build these supplements.
00:26:49 Jacqueline Kincer
The supplement. Yeah.
00:26:51 Heidi Sabena
And I was using those and then I still felt like I wasn't making enough milk. So then I doubled up. I don't even know that could have done like Contra, like it could have made it worse, but then I was using this other one that I got, which was like mother love or something. And so I was like desperate to, like, make more milk. And it was just. It was such a frantic. Like I think maybe my. Test or I don't know, like my body just wasn't doing that, wasn't making it, and the formula in so many ways has just brought so much.
00:27:20 Jacqueline Kincer
Cuz you know sometimes.
00:27:21 Heidi Sabena
Doctors will say, like, how much did they feed? I don't know. My breast is not clear. I don't know how many ounces she got out, you know, or like, Prince, how much do you think she got? I don't know. Whereas, I mean, the formula. It brought me this piece of saying I know she drank 3 oz. You know? And there was just a piece that came in my heart, which then that brings a peace to our home.
00:27:30 Jacqueline Kincer
Right.
00:27:40 Heidi Sabena
And you know, to my kids and just, you know, when mom is at peace, the house is at peace. Yeah, it was. I think, just not to push it on someone right away and be like, here. Your milk isn't coming in immediately. Because, like we know, cholesterol it it takes time. Like, and the baby's OK. But so not just to force it and sabotage the whole process, but to also let them know that it's OK if they need that even as they are practicing, you know, to get the thing, the ball rolling and get the breastfeeding going up to a good place I think. Yeah. So I. Guess just to not demonize the formula. I really had demonized it so much, I think.
00:28:20 Jacqueline Kincer
Yeah. Oh, gosh. Well, so much wisdom from the both of you and. This has been a very long road, even though it really was, you know, just it hasn't even been a year, right? But that's a long time and that's affected your family in such a deep way. And now things are going better and that's what we've wanted all along. And so no matter how you have to get there. Crossing borders and you know, doing all of these things, paying crazy shipping to get a pump and you know, you guys really. I I would say the common theme that I love about your story is that. First and foremost, you seem to be just so committed to your family as a unit as a whole, and so whatever decisions you've made, whether or not you would have done it in that same way next time you know, now you have more knowledge and and whatnot. So there's that. But it's I I feel like you're still the strong. Family unit that fear that maybe Prince it seemed like you might have felt like I'm losing her. Like she's so obsessed with this topic and with brass feeding and and where has she? Fun. And now you guys are back together, sort of in a way, right. But as a family, you're very cohesive. And I just love that for you. So I'm thrilled with everything that's, you know, gone well. I'm not thrilled that it took so long to get there, obviously, but you're on the other side of it now. So does any last words of encouragement? For parents that might be going through something difficult, you know, like the lack of resources, the lack of finding the right providers with the information or whatever it is like, what words of encouragement would you give to someone who's listening to this and is going through something similar?
00:30:07 Prince Sabena
I think for me, the thing even just as we sit here talking, it's just amazing how in the midst of it all, it seems like it will never end. You know, there's so many unknowns, it's it can be very exhausting, scary place. But now we're here 11 months in. And we we can't even remember some of the things that happened a few months ago, and I guess it it just shows how, however bad all this can be, but eventually you do get past it. And I think it's helpful to know as a parent, right from the start. MHM. When you're at the hospital and you're struggling to pump. And I'm trying to, you know, comfort her. And I just didn't seem like it's working out. It's just helpful to know that there's an endpoint to this. It's not going to always be this way, but as well to remember to still enjoy this moment, to enjoy this experience. And and I was kept on trying to help myself remember, you know. I have a bad this always. We still have a little gift of God in our arms and I want to enjoy this even as I'm struggling, you know, to stay awake. I I I want to be able to enjoy her. So I think for me it it's just knowing that that this too shall pass is probably what I would say. Yeah.
00:31:32 Heidi Sabena
And I think too, you know, I'm speaking to those that are married to not turn on each other to really like press into each other and to find. You know strength and comfort and help you know to ask each other questions to ask each other for help and to not. You're already dealing with so much, so don't allow this situation that you might be going through to, like, really tear your family apart because first and foremost, I think. You know the the way we can care for our kids, the best and our little babies. Is to be. Working on our marriage and to be leaning into each other and to looking for even how you know as a mom and and healing from a C-section like but still how can I help my husband, you know, how can I be a blessing like to him even as I have a lot going on and just trying to be gracious to him and. You know, just to not take things that people like we say to each other too personally and be quick to say I'm very sorry and I shouldn't have said that. Will you please forgive me to ask for forgiveness a lot, I. Like, yeah, just because already. You know, it's so stressful and you know, and then for a woman with the hormones that are going on and stuff to then be at odds with each other with your spouse. That's not good for your child, like it's not healthy for your kids and stuff too. So when you know Mommy and Daddy are doing well. So, yeah, I think fight for that fight for your marriage and. And that will really help you in that journey, because 22 heads are better than one. For sure and for.
00:33:06 Jacqueline Kincer
They are. You guys, well, you 2 are just a beautiful couple and I just, you know every it's like, I don't know, listening to your story is like listening to like a really moving documentary because, you know, you have this. Dramatic. Plot line but this happy ending. And of course, Rudy's only 11 months old, so there's a lot more story to tell with her, but I'm just thrilled for you and that you've come out the other side of this and just such an amazing way. So thank you for sharing your story. With me, with everyone who's listening for being willing to talk about it, because I think the more we talk about these things, the more understanding we have. And so not only have you been able to help your cousin with her baby and what she's gone through, but you are helping. I don't even know how many people are gonna listen to this, but thousands of people around the world. So it's incredible work that you're doing and your story on the podcast is just part of that work. So. Thank you.
00:34:10 Heidi Sabena
Thanks, Jacqueline.
00:34:18 Jacqueline Kincer
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