Is the AAP Telling Women How to Breastfeed?
Description
In today’s episode, Jacqueline discusses the latest policy statement put out by the AAP. She’ll clear up some of the common myths and misconceptions about the statement, as well as give her unbiased interpretation of the policy update.
This statement has been widely misinterpreted by social media since its release, but Jacqueline clears all of that up in this episode. This episode contains factual, scientific information.
The AAP describes itself as "We're 67,000 pediatricians committed to the optimal physical, mental, and social health and well-being for all infants, children, adolescents, and young adults."
In today's show, we discuss:
- Common myths and misconceptions about the AAP statement
- What exactly the AAP is trying to accomplish with the statement
- Jacqueline’s unbiased interpretation of the policy statement
00:00:03 Jacqueline Kincer
Hi, I'm Jacqueline Kinser and for the past five years I've been helping families all around the globe to overcome their breastfeeding challenges and this is the first non clinical breastfeeding podcast that shows you how to walk, breastfeeding and master motherhood. Through practical tips, mindset shifts and honest conversation to create a confident and empowering breastfeeding journey. This is the Breastfeeding talk podcast.
00:00:37
Welcome back to the Breastfeeding Talk podcast. I am your host Jacqueline Kinser, and today we're going to be talking about the latest statement, a policy statement that has come out from the AAP, which is the American Academy of Pediatrics. Now, if you have not heard all the hubbub and controversy about that, great. If you have, I'm going to be clearing up a lot of the myths and misconceptions about this statement, somehow this has ignited some sort of online comments battle and and made people angry. And so when you talk about why that is and really just give you a better understanding of the statement as a whole. So let's first talk about what is the AAP. So it's the American Academy of Pediatrics like I said and essentially this is an organization for pediatricians.
00:01:30
So it is not anything other than that. In fact, the AAP describes itself as the following we are 67,000 pediatricians committed to the optimal physical, mental and social health and well-being for all infants, children, adolescents, and young adults. So it's a group of pediatricians they are putting out policy statements, guidelines. They have a journal. It is the Premier Journal in pediatric medicine called Pediatrics. And so that's what this organization it's they're a medical organization really for pediatricians and to inform pediatric healthcare. That's it. Nothing more. So, and I say that because there's been a lot of people saying, well, you know, how dare they release this statement in light of what's happened with Roe V Wade or the Pump Act or the fact that we still don't have parental leave or there's a formula shortage. And it's like, look, the AP does not control any of those things. That is not their goal. That is, is not in their their scope.
00:02:32
Really. And so, yes, those things are all things that need to change, but those things will be more likely to change if we have an organization like the AP, a US based organization specifically for pediatricians and for pediatric medicine coming out and saying, hey, here's what we need to be doing to support breastfeeding when you have a powerful, well respected, well known organization like the AAP coming out and saying these things. Things that gives a lot of credibility to the things that we want. So the AAP is not telling you what to do, OK, they are not speaking to you as a consumer or parent directly. They're actually speaking to pediatricians for the most part. So a little bit more background on this. The AP issued this policy statement and also, a technical report, both of these are called breastfeeding and the use of human.
00:03:26
On June 27th, 2022. OK. And it's actually all of this is contained in their July issue, volume 150 issue one of the journal Pediatrics. So you can find it online for free and full. I've got it linked up in the show notes for anybody who wants to read it. It's all there. I would encourage you to read it if you have any questions about what this statement is, but essentially this report and statement updated their guidelines for supporting parents who choose to breastfeed, so this update brings the AAP into alignment with the World Health Organization of supporting parents breastfeeding their children to age 2 and beyond.
00:04:04
So the World Health Organization has had that guideline forever. We know that is the biological norm for the human species that children will breastfeed for two years or beyond if there is no intervention, no parental meaning that is done if things are sort of left to, you know, breastfeeding on demand. And all of that, and introducing solid foods. Now just to be clear, if you're not familiar with this, a 2 year old does not nurse the same as a 2 month old, so primary nutrition comes from diet and then breast milk is kind of a substitute, right? So I mean, This is why pediatricians, if you're not breastfeeding once your child turns a year old, This is why they're recommending cows milk to infants and children, you know, have a need for primary milks, right? So once they reach toddlerhood, they still have a need for milk. And if it's not going to be breast milk, it shouldn't be formula. It's going to be cows, milk or something else. So that's why we have that recommendation. There is actually a need for small children to consume milk. And that's why pediatricians recommend this now. The previous guidelines of encouraging breastfeeding until a year from the AP. Unfortunately, what that did was lead a lot of pediatricians to think that parents should wean their children once they turn a year old, and it also led a lot of pediatricians to believe that there were no benefits to breastfeeding beyond a year. So I've heard from clients I've heard from parents out there tell me and say that their pediatrician told them, you know, you're just doing this for selfish reasons or there's no benefits. Breast milk does not have any nutrition after a year old. That's all utter nonsense and not backed up by the science at all. So one of the things that I really, really loved about this AAP statement is that it was very thoughtfully put together, very carefully worded and it talks about in sites, all of the really amazing studies that we have and certainly not every single one but a good sampling of studies that's very representative, very strong studies, good evidence about the benefits of breastfeeding exclusive until six months, then introducing solid foods and continuing to two years and beyond. So they talk about, you know, reducing the risk factors for a lot of diseases and illnesses and neural developmental things and all of that for children.
00:06:26
Also, the benefits for the mother, which are very, very important, so reducing instances of diabetes, high blood pressure, certain cancers. So there are so many benefits and those benefits are compounded the longer that you breastfeed and so they actually cite that evidence in there, and a lot of people. It's it's interesting to me because, you know, as a lactation consultant, this is just part of my training. I've always known the benefits of breastfeeding, you know, full term breastfeeding often looks like 3-4 or five years. And that's just our biological norm. Now. It's difficult for a lot of people to get to that for long and breastfeeding because generally, there's just not enough breastfeeding support out there, and that doesn't just mean lactation consultants, right? That means that you're having to go back to work way too early. You're not able to access, let's say, maybe the right, you know, breast pump or the right education, or you don't have a supportive partner or family at home. And, you know, just society in general, right, there's all these different things that compromise breastfeeding along the way. And so when you're getting subpar support, my goodness, you know, it's really hard to reach that two year mark, unfortunately, a lot of public figures have been misinterpreting what the AP statement says. So they're saying this policy is shaming moms, and it's setting an impossible goal for breastfeeding. I'm gonna come out and say it right now, and I have come out and said it on Instagram. That's factually untrue and a gross misrepresentation of every word of the AAP statement and here's why. So again this AAP, it's an organization for pediatricians. It provides guidance for the standards they want to see. All US pediatricians adhere to when they're treated patients. So the AAP is advocating for full term breastfeeding as a medical organization and they are guiding pediatricians how to support breastfeeding in their communities and with their patients. They are not shaming moms. They're not even directing their statement at moms. They're just updating their policy to fully support breastfeeding when that is chosen by a family, so if you didn't catch that, I would just rewind that about 30 seconds and listen to that.
00:08:38
So people are really upset because they either haven't read the full statement, so they're paying attention to clickbait headlines and posts, or they don't understand what it means to create a public health policy using the best medical evidence available to us. It's interesting. I've had some great discussions on Instagram through DMS and whatnot, where people have said, you know.
00:08:58
The phrase breast is best that you know that is a factually true statement. And why are people so offended about? And I understand right? Technically speaking, yes, best is best for most people, so there's only rare cases where it's not like a parent who's on chemotherapy or some other medication that's completely contraindicated during breastfeeding or the child has a rare genetic disorder and cannot properly tolerate and digest breast milk so you know they actually point this out in the very beginning of their policy statement. The AP does they say medical contraindications to breastfeeding are rare. That is true. Now, what does that mean? A contraindication is not a complication.00:09:42
OK, so a contraindication is like you have a medical something going on a condition something treatment, whatever and that is prohibiting you from breastfeeding. OK. So that's what a contraindication is. So if you you know let's say you're prescribed in medication, but you have a medical condition that makes that medication contraindicated for you to take. That's because it would be medically dangerous for you to take that medication, right? So a medical contraindication to breastfeeding is there, that is a factually true statement. So people sometimes don't understand the word contraindication, and that's really not the AAP's responsibility, right? They have to use certain language to convey things in a very precise manner. That's the appropriate word to use. So people are saying that it it feels impossible to breastfeed for two weeks, let alone two years and they end up projecting their individual circumstances onto the AP statement and saying that the the AP is setting an unachievable goal for breastfeeding moms. Well, you know, I I'm just gonna come out and say this because I feel like I need to come to the defense of this organization that's trying to do a very, very good thing for families. The AP is not setting a goal for you. They're not telling you that you should breastfeed for two years. OK, your baby's pediatrician is not telling you what to.
00:11:02
Do their job is to give you all of the latest and greatest medical evidence out there and public health policy so that you can make an informed decision. There are risks to not breastfeeding full term and this policy statement and technical report talk about those things. They go over the science, OK with exact numbers. Oops, OK, from studies like actual scientific statistical figures about why, just not just any breastfeeding short term, but this long term full term breastfeeding, why that is beneficial and what happens when that doesn't happen. They go on to talk about how impacted people of color are by not being able to meet these breastfeeding letters and they talk about the socioeconomic impacts of that. They talk about hospitals and how that advocacy there is not up to par. They talk about the community, they talk about the need for pediatricians to proactively go out in their communities to connect with lactation consultants and refer to them to have a written breastfeeding policy for their office to support breastfeeding out in the open, in their waiting room to track breastfeeding rates and their own practices, right? So the AP is actually giving direction, you know, numbered point by point, direction to pediatricians to say, here's the things that we've identified that you need to be doing as a pediatrician other than just treating your patients and also treating your patients and understanding that breastfeeding for two years is the norm for humans. This is what we want to achieve for most people. How do we get there? So they're looking at a path forward. They fully acknowledge in their statement those limitations of lack of paid parental leave, right? All of these.
00:12:45
They fully acknowledge that I will say the one thing that the AAP ended up leaving out of the conversation was mental health. Now that's a tricky 1 to address and I can kind of see why they left it out because one, the AAP does not treat moms, they don't treat adult mental health. And so it's not really right for them to comment and comment on it in a lot of ways, what's probably best is for them to partner with an organization like ACOG or someone else. So the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology or something else, right, because they're worried about pediatric care and it's really out of their scope and out of their purview to comment on adults and parents, mental health. You know, that being said, I think there could have been maybe like one line about it. But The thing is, is that breastfeeding doesn't negatively impact mental health just in and of itself, the only time your mental health is impacted negatively by virtue of best breastfeeding is when breastfeeding is not going well and you're not getting support and making it go better. Because I can tell you having done private practice for years that even though breastfeeding is not going well if you have the proper support in place, it's very unlikely that you're going to be in a bad place mentally like and you're not gonna have all perfect dates like I think there's this idea that just because you're breastfeeding like you should just be in love with it.
00:14:08
And you know, just every moment should be the sheer joy and bonding moment with your baby. That's not true. That's just patently false. And I don't know where that ideal came from. I think it's from maybe just, you know, all of the beautiful breastfeeding photographs that are out there, which are great. But breastfeeding is not always bliss, and it's not going to be. And so I think moms are sort of set up for failure then they're not really educated on how difficult it can be, or on the flip side, people are telling them their horror stories of breastfeeding in which they got like 0 support doing it and these stories are shared and people feel like vilified, like, oh, it didn't go right for me. And so I chose formula and that's what was best for me. And that's great. No, but the problem with that narrative is that when you're shouting that publicly, you're actually scaring people away from breastfeeding and you're never giving them the solution, you're never saying I had a horrible time. I had a **** time. I had to go to formula. My nipples were bleeding, and I had all this stuff. Like it's one thing to tell that story, but it's another to leave out the fact that, hey there is actually support out there. I should have gotten that, and I probably would have had an easier time be angry at the systems that didn't give you the support you needed when you needed it. Instead of being angry at the people that are out there trying to support breastfeeding. So it's weird to me that when something doesn't go well, the people that exist out there that could help this go better.
00:15:40
Hint hint me and my team or any great lactation consultant, right? Like we can fix some of the worst situations. I promise you. I mean, we have seen. I've worked with people pumping straight blood. I mean, I have worked with people who you know are getting 0 drops of milk at the pump and we're able to get a milk supply going like. I mean there's no situation that that's truly that bad, right? It's just a matter of like, if you've gone months and months without getting support and it, it definitely becomes a lot harder and you know, maybe it's not personally worth it for you to continue to pursue, right. So those medical contraindications to breastfeeding are indeed rare. It's just that when people aren't supportive when they when they aren't given good healthcare regarding breastfeeding, that we see these terrible outcomes. And so instead of being angry at a lactation consultant or a non profit organization. Or, you know, a a medical organization like the AP.
00:16:33
Like, let's get angry at the right people here. OK, so let's get angry at your hospital. Who doesn't have lactation consultants on staff or never referred to you to outpatient private practice when you obviously needed that referral or let's get angry at your employer who doesn't give you paid parental leave. Let's get angry at your insurance company who won't cover lactation consultant visits. Let's get angry at the right people. Not the people that are out there, who are ready and willing to do the work, you know, and I have to say this too, that you know having done business coaching for lactation consultants, I lecture at conferences for lactation consultants, international conferences all over the world mild and it's the same story everywhere. Private practice lactation consultants, which are highly needed because breastfeeding happens beyond just those first couple of days in the hospital after you give birth, right? Things happen. Things change very rapidly in those first couple of weeks. So we do need private practice. We need outpatient support. There are so many too many lactation consultants out there that cannot make a living doing what they're doing, and it's not because they're charging too much. It's not because they're not good at what they do.
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00:18:27 Jacqueline Kincer
It's because people don't engage and use their services and so they leave the profession. They go find something else that will make them more money, because honestly, whatever their fees are, they're really not enough. It's it's, you know, there's overhead involved. And you have to consider that right, especially if someones doing home visits and driving to you and there's the cost of not just all of that, you know involved in their supplies and the drive there and car insurance and gas and of that right. But on top of that, it's their time, their time. So their commute to go see you means that that's another family that they couldn't help during that same time frame. And so a lot of people kind of bulk $200 for an hour appointment, and it's like $200 to take breastfeeding from being absolute garbage to something that now you can continue to do with a lot less frustration and a lot more ease in an hour time span and you have this person's 100% dedicated support. And they're supporting you after that appointment as well. They're not just dropping you and leaving you. That's an incredible value. Quite honestly, I don't think a lot of people realize this unless they're combo feeding or they are fully formula feeding. But you know, if you wanted to feed your baby exclusive formula, it's about 40 bucks a week to do that. So it ends up being pretty cost intensive and yes, you're paying that cost as you go as opposed to with the lactation. That's why you're paying that one time fee. But you know, if you do make it to that six months of exclusive breastfeeding, if you make it to that year with solid foods, if you make it to two years, the health benefits that have created economic benefits for you and your family.
00:20:06
Not to mention, you know, just all of the money you might have saved on formula during that. Right, that's huge. That's absolutely huge. So it's just something to look at, right. And I'm not saying everybody out there can afford this or whatever, but there are government programs, right? There are non profit programs and it's just it's very difficult when we're out here as breastfeeding supporters sort of on an island going. Hey there is help available to you. There are multiple resources that are completely underutilized and then we have, you know, pediatricians or obese. That never refer to us that never tell their patients. Hospitals aren't aren't telling people. Hey, here's what's available to you outside of us. So this AP statement, the cool thing about it, is that they're calling for that to change. They're saying you need to partner with obese. You need to partner with hospitals. You need to partner with community organizations and you need to partner with lactation consultants. And you need to make sure that every single patient that is breastfeeding their baby or wants to breastfeed their baby that walks through your door knows about these things. You need to have a partnership and you're working together. Thank you, AP, because I cannot tell you how often I see my colleagues, you know, get rebuffed by pediatricians who are completely unwilling to refer to them. Why? I have no idea. It's not like we're gonna steal your business. I don't get it. We're not doctors. We don't treat infectious disease. We don't do developmental milestone checks. We don't administer vaccines, we don't do any. Do that you serve a different role. Why not just refer to us? It makes everything better for everybody. So the AP is calling for that collaboration, which is really, really great, and they outline these barriers to breastfeeding. They even talk about race. They talk about medical conditions. They talk about substance use. They talk about governmental policies and environmental policies. So they bring up the main things that are highly problematic that prevent people. Well, from breastfeeding at all, let alone reaching a longer term goal, you know, and this latest evidence that they reveal, you know, is really important, right. So a lot of people want to know. Well, show me the science. I mean, almost every sentence. This statement is backed up by a citation. So you've got plenty of studies to look at there if you wanna dive deeper and again. You know, we're linking this up in the show notes for you, and I will say that all of the things that the AP statement is recommending I think are fantastic. There's not a single thing I would change about this other than like I said, just to mention about maternal mental health. But this is a perfect statement. This is in alignment with you know, again the World Health Organization, you know, it's only in the US that you know people are so surprised about this statement elsewhere in the world, everyone's like, yeah, the US is like finally catching up with the rest of us. So that's a like a lot of things in the US, right? It's a bigger country. Sometimes it takes longer for things to be changed and all of that, but these are some excellent steps. These are the steps that should inform public health policy when we have a statement like this. That organizations, lobbyists, citizens can come to their representatives in Congress and say, hey, we've got the AAP over here recommending breastfeeding until 2 years old. And these are the things that they've outlined. OK, so this is what pediatricians can do. But here's what they can't do. And here's all the other things that we need you to do as our state or federal government to help support breastfeeding moms and when you have a statement like this from a big organization like the AP, you're more likely to get some laws changed. You're more likely to get employers on board, you're more likely to get societal support for full term breastfeeding and just supporting breastfeeding in general without this statement.
00:23:45
And I'm not saying this statement is the end all, be all. I'm not saying it's going to, you know, make some massive change overnight or anything like that but without this statement. What are we hoping to push? Right. So I I just kind of want to put it into perspective that like this is a very, very needed step and if the AP makes a statement like this, it's only a matter of time until an organization like ACOG makes a statement like this or the American Academy of Family Physicians. So there's a lot of other medical organizations out there, the CDC can start to get on board with this, right? So we can get a lot of different organizations on board when we have an organization like the AAP coming out and issuing a statement like this. So I think it's a fantastic move. You know, I will sit here and say there's absolutely more that needs to be done. Can the AP do it all? Heck no. But can they advocate for science fact, medical and healthcare recommendations to educate United States pediatricians about this? Yeah, you bet your ****. They can absolutely. And is the AAP on your side? No matter how you choose to feed your baby? Yes, yes, they are. They are not saying that pediatrician should force their patients to breastfeed, that they should, you know, tell them that formula is bad or anything like that. No, they're saying please do not give formulas samples to parents who want to breastfeed that is only warranted when there's a medical need for formula. I appreciate that, especially in light of a formula shortage. Why are we handing out formula samples when you can't even go buy it on the store shelf? Now I understand that's a useful thing if you need formula, but if you don't need formula and you're giving that to a family that doesn't need it.
00:25:27
And now they even start to use it just because they've been given it for free, but they never needed to. That takes more formula off the shelves for families who do truly need it. So there's all these things that they're really trying to touch on. I think it's very timely. I think a statement like this should absolutely be issued right now. And the reason why I think that is because one, it's long overdue. This should have been done a long time ago. Like I said, the World Health Organization has had this in place. From a public health perspective, I mean the US surgeon general back in 2010 talked about the need to increase breastfeeding rates. They set certain goals, we have healthy people, 20/30/2020 all of these, you know initiatives and things in the US. And the United States surgeon General said back in 2010. So keep that in mind. It's now 2022 with insane inflation. So it's obviously a much higher dollar amount these days. But they said if we increase breastfeeding rates and duration that the United States would save $13.7 billion a year billion dollars a year.
00:26:29
I mean that is an insane amount. It's gotta be over 20 billion. That that figure would come out to now. So that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money for our economy. And they put that number together in terms of, you know, healthcare costs. So we know that infants who don't receive breast milk are more likely to become sick. They're more likely to die. And yes, that is factually true. Go read the statement. You can read all about it in there, especially if they're African American. So this is a big problem, right? And if the child is not breastfed and they end up diabetic because they were not breast fed, they end up obese, they end up with, you know, all of these other complications. That is a toll on our healthcare system that is more expense and cost economically to now take care of this child that. Otherwise, would not have had these problems, and I really want to say this kind of this last point where people will say, well, my kid was formula fed and they're fine. OK, that's great. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you're incorrect about that, but you know, they're still growing up, right? It still remains to be seen breastfeeding effects your health across the lifespan. It's not just something that affects your child during infancy or toddlerhood or the early childhood years. And so, you know, what is fine. Exactly right. Like, do we not want better for our children than fine? You know, it's kind of like this whole argument. I mean, this could be a whole podcast episode, really about Fed is best. No, it damn well is not. Best Fed is the bare minimum to keep somebody alive if I mean this is and I understand the the intention behind the statement, but it's just factually untrue to say Fed is best. No, it isn't fair is the Fed is the bare, bare minimum. That's it. Like we, I mean, in order to keep a child alive, we have to feed them. We have to hold them. I mean, like I I don't understand why that somehow becomes standard.
00:28:23
And I don't think we should be lowering the standards just because that's what most people do. That's not how we create scientific policies. That's not how we create public health policies. You know, I mean that that would be like, you know, coming out and creating a public health policy that says, yeah, you know what, it's totally fine to just, you know, never eat vegetables and you can drink soda all day long and you'll be OK well, scientifically, that's not true. And maybe that is what, you know, a huge portion of the population is doing. But that doesn't mean that we should make that the stand. 3rd So this idea that we should lower the standard somehow or that we shouldn't raise the standard I think is really misguided. I think that we know a lot better. We have science and medicine at our fingertips these days and there's so much funding available for things like this. Now a policy statement like this can drive more funding for scientific studies on breastfeeding, how to better support breastfeeding, all of that and.
00:29:22
If we are trying to stifle progress, if we are trying to stifle innovation, all of that, we're sending ourselves back. We're setting ourselves back historically and all of that and there's a lot of other areas in our society where that is happening right now, unfortunately. And so I just want to say that I think the AP did the right thing and I think releasing this statement amidst a formula shortage is very important, right? So maybe the formula shortage wouldn't be as big of a deal had people been better supported and breastfeeding.
00:29:50
Notice that I didn't say had you breastfed right. We're not putting the blame on the individual here like individuals can only do so much if they don't know how to access support, they can't access it. They're not getting good skilled support. Then why are we expecting them to be able to meet these breastfeeding standards? We can't. And that's what the AP is saying to. So I hope that that clarifies things for you, that's sort of my rundown of it. I would say that's, that's my unbiased interpretation of it. I don't agree with everything that the AP says, although I do think their policies in general are really great. Like oftentimes I refer back to their, their policy, their sort of guidelines on jaundice and things like that. And I appreciate that they're updating things. That they're not just saying, you know, we already have a policy on breastfeeding. And so we're just gonna leave it. They're making an effort to revisit these things. And, you know, these were put together by some very, very qualified people. So if you go and look at this authors on this, you know, they're MD's, they're fellows of the AP. One of them is registered dietician. We've got both of them are Ibcs. They've got, you know, whole acknowledgements at the very end about everyone who's contributed to this. And all of the work that they've done on it. And I have to say, I think that it's really wonderful to see. That they included so many people from the Academy of Breastfeeding, Medicine, Ibcs doctors, you know, people who are really working with breastfeeding, they also have people who have masters in public health and MBAs. Well, this like these are important credentials that you really want to have on board when you're looking at creating a policy like this. And so if this is something that has personally offended you in some way, I really would just say I think that it's important that you take a step back and ask why. Why am I offended by the AP creating a public health policy to better support breastfeeding and improve breastfeeding outcomes. Why would that be offend?
00:31:46
You know, if breastfeeding has not gone well for you or it currently is not going well for you, don't you want better support and better healthcare regarding that or do you really just want people to say you know, no, I don't want to support you in breastfeeding and continue the suffering that you've experienced. Because it really is black or white in that sense, right? You can't sit here and say I want more breastfeeding support, but then get angry at the people that are trying to create that. So anyway, if you're following on Instagram, you've seen me talk about this a lot, especially during this time frame and whatnot.
00:32:23
So I would encourage you to come over there, follow us out, holistic lactation, having some good conversations if you're enjoying the episode you listen to here on breastfeeding talk. We've had some incredible interviews recently. If you have not listened to the previous episode with Doctor Rebecca Diamond, she is a pediatrician. We have an excellent conversation about breastfeeding. And the ways that pediatricians have traditionally not supported breastfeeding and what she's doing as a pediatrician to support breastfeeding, Dr. Diamond is an excellent example of what the AAP wants its doctors to be doing. And so I would encourage you to check that out. She's got a book coming out in September. I'm so excited. She's actually just messaged me to send me an advanced copy, so I'm gonna read that. I'm sure you'll hear me talking about that. I love reading books and hers. Just if it's anything like what she posts over on her Instagram, I cannot wait to read it. I wish I had this book, like, 10 years ago.
00:33:17
So anyway, go back and listen that episode if you have not, make sure you're subscribed to the Breastfeeding talk podcast wherever you like to listen to us. That way you get notified every time there's a new episode Code and if you love this episode, please screenshot it. Post it in your stories, tag us. We would love to hear from you. Leave a review that helps other people find this podcast and listen to the episodes that improves our ranking over on any podcast platform. So we so appreciate you listening and I'll talk to you on the next episode.
00:33:48
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