Mom Journey: Breastfeeding After Losing a Baby

[2:59] Jennifer seeks lactation help after her unplanned c-section but receives no in-person help

[9:58] Being pregnant, her son continues to nurse through pregnancy and even dry nursed when she dried up

[11:06] Jennifer’s 2nd birth, a water birth at home

[15:00] Now tandem nursing, Jennifer is really noticing the bond between her kids

[20:28] Jennifer finds out she’s pregnant again and her oldest decides to self wean

[30:53] How she found comfort in nursing her middle child after the loss of her newborn

[37:24] How Jennifer coped and is grieving after her loss and ending her breastfeeding journey

 

00:00:03 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Kincer and for the past five years I've been helping families all around the globe to overcome their breastfeeding challenges and this is the first non clinical breastfeeding podcast that shows you how to walk breastfeeding and master motherhood through practical tips, mindset shifts and honest conversation to create a confident and empowering breastfeeding journey. This is the Breastfeeding talk podcast.

 

00:00:38 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Welcome back to the Breastfeeding Talk podcast. I'm your host Jacqueline Kinser and today I am interviewing someone really awesome and I'm really excited to introduce you to her. Her name is Jennifer Schaefer and she's actually our podcast manager, so she gets to listen to all the episode. She does the editing and you've seen her work. If you're listening to the show. Show notes, transcripts, all of that fun stuff. And she's a mom of two boys and she has been on her breastfeeding journey for almost six years now, so she's nursed through a pregnancy and then done tandem nursing onto another pregnancy while weaning her oldest and then unfortunately, nursing after a loss. She's donated 5000 ounces to local moms as well. And she's a doula and a birth worker. But primarily right now, she is focusing on podcast management. So she's been through everything and figuring it out the first time with no help. She's had clogged ducks lip ties, but an over producer, you name it, she's pumped. She hasn't pumped. She's pumped. Just to donate. I'm excited for Jennifer to tell us all about her entire journey and really sure some inspiring story and her experience with you, because I think it's so important to share these stories. I find people like Jennifer so inspiring. And I'm so glad to have Jennifer as the editor and the manager of this podcast because she understands the content that we're talking about on the show and it's meaningful to her in her life. So welcome, Jennifer.

 

00:02:17 Jennifer Schafer

 

Hi. I'm so excited to be here with you guys. I'm so excited to share my story and my journey, and hopefully I can relate to someone else. And I feel it's really relatable. I'm editing this podcast every week, and I'm just sitting here listening to all these other mom stories, and I'm just thinking every time. And like I need to be on this podcast, I need to share my story. I've been through so much that I think someone needs to hear it, so I'm super excited to be here. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I love that you are open to sharing it because you've gone through some things that other moms have, but then some very unique things as well. And so I'm excited for you to talk about that.

 

00:02:46 Jacqueline Kincer

 

And I don't know if you want to just maybe kind of start chronologically from the beginning of how this all started for you and becoming a mom and all of that. I think that would be just a great place for listeners to get to know.

 

00:02:58 Jennifer Schafer

 

You. Yeah, I already feel like I'm gonna do a lot of talking here, yeah. My journey started in 2017 when I had my first, so he's about to be 6 in January, actually I guess rewind a little bit. It started in 2015 with our first miscarriage. It was right around our wedding when my husband and I got married and we didn't know we were pregnant, I was very early on. After that miscarriage kind of drove me into the birth realm and I was like, hey, I need to find out what happened here. Why did I miss Gary? How did I not know? I was pregnant in the first place. And so I kind of dove into my doula work and I started my doula trainings a couple years later. But my miscarriage kind of opened my eyes to the birth realm. So then Fast forward after that to 2017, when we had our son I knew that I wanted to have him Naturally I I put air quotes on naturally because I didn't know at the time. The wording to use I guess knowing now it's physiologically, but I knew I wanted to have him naturally. So we were in the hospital and I went 27 hours in labor.

 

00:04:09 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow

 

00:04:12 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah, 19 of them were unmedicated, and we tried everything. I tried in the birth tub and then at 19 hours they they basically said you can go another 24 hours, but you might risk your baby or you can have a C-section those were his exact words as a first time mom. I thought, well, get the baby out. I'm exhausted here. So we went forth with the C-section at noon the next day, so it had been 27 hours. That's when my breastfeeding journey began. I guess. So at at a C-section. So here I was wanting a natural. Now I know physiological birth and now I'm in the hospital with a C-section. So I'm like, as a first time mom, I'm just like, whoa, I'm. I'm stunned right now. I don't even know where to begin. And so after about an hour, you know, he they get him cleaned up. They get me cleaned up and then back to our rooms. It had been about his first hour is when I first got to hold him and cuddle him, and then I knew that I wanted to breastfeed. I always knew that I was going to breastfeed my kids. I just it just always was and always is. And that's just how it was. So I waited for the lactation consultant to come in. And I've heard this so much on the podcast, I hear there's almost every episode that there's a mom journey that I waited for the lactation consultant to come in, and they never came. They never came, you know, or it had been 12 hours until they came. I hear this all the time. So at the time I'm trying to latch, and I didn't even know. Yeah what hold to do? I was just kind of letting him do his thing on my chest and hoping he would get a good latch and like I was just blind man, I had blinders on. And so I waited for the lady to come. Hours and hours went by and she finally came. I don't know how long it was, but I just remember her not explaining anything to me but doing it for me, like putting him on the boob for me and never explained. So when she left, I remember it was the middle of the night. Like the second night. And I just remember thinking, I don't know what to do because she did it for me. So I don't know what to do.

 

00:06:15 Jacqueline Kincer

 

So so common that is just that's. Yeah, that happened to me too. Like I I don't understand this and I don't want people to think that all lactation consultants are like this. We're not. But I'm so sorry. Of course, you don't know what to do. You've never done this before.

 

00:06:29 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah. And so I finally, finally worked it finally got him. I I finally calmed down. My mom finally arrived and you know kind of got me my stress level down and said he feels your stress, so. Just just calm down. So. So we did get them to latch in the hospital a few times. They told me that they were gonna do like a check to make sure that we were good to go latch wise, but they never did. Never did that. Just released us. So we went home and that first night that we were at home, he was, I think three days old. And I remember sitting in the middle of my bed. Just rocking him back and forth, he was crying and I was crying. I hurt so bad and I just remember looking at this little baby thinking I don't know what we're doing either, but we're going to figure it out together.

 

00:07:16 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Ohh I love that.

 

00:07:16 Jennifer Schafer

 

And I remember my dad pushing formula. Like, why don't you just give him a bottle? And I remember saying because I I don't even have formula in the house. I didn't plan for formula. It's not an option for me. You know, we're gonna breastfeed. We're gonna do this. It's gonna be fine. He had a touch of jaundice as well, so we were kind of. Read about getting him some more fluids so we spent a couple of days like that. I was in a lot of pain. I was very engorged. I didn't have a pump yet because insurance hadn't given it to me. Yet so I was using a manual pump at the time. I was asking my husband. Like, can you pump me? My arms are so tired from manually pumping, just trying to not be engorged Uh.

 

00:07:58 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Gosh, I bet. Did he do It for you?

 

00:07:59 Jennifer Schafer

 

He did? Yeah. Like a trooper? Yeah.

 

00:08:02 Jennifer Schafer

 

So I'm super engorged and I'm I'm in pain and you know, now I'm starting to crack and bleed. I'm getting clogged ducts now and this, like, the latch just is not working I reached out to a lactation consultant through the health department, I believe, but I never got any help. I just got text help like an absolute. No, no, no. Like text me a picture, and I'll tell you if it's a lip tie. And she did. And she was like, yeah, that's a lip tie. And that's exactly why you're hurting. That's exactly why he's not nursing well and that's why he doesn't have a good match. You need to get that clipped right away. So as a first time mom, I'm like red alert. Oh, my gosh. OK, this is going to solve my problem. So let's get this clipped so we get it. We get them in to an ENT and they get him in right away. And he did it. The old school style where he just sliced and then I put him straight on a boob and we looked like a vampire for the whole afternoon. Ohh no. And the whole the procedure actually went OK, but looking back on it, it was an unnecessary tie and it did not need to be clipped. So it just stinks that I didn't have the knowledge.

 

00:09:11 Jacqueline Kincer

 

So so you got it basically someone said you had a lactation person tell you from a photo. Yes, it's a lip tie. They never assessed breastfeeding. And then you went and went to the ENT. They cut it and in the end that was not what your baby needed.

 

00:09:31 Jennifer Schafer

 

It's not at all. It did relieve some of the pain that I had. That I regret not knowing like I knew at that point that I was interested in birth work after that first miscarriage. But then I didn't really dive deep into it, but we made it through that, and then the next part of my journey, I did dive into my birth work. So after all of that, I got pregnant again and so he was born in 2017. My next son was born in 2019, so he was 2.

 

00:09:56 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Or how long did you nurse your son for?

 

00:09:59 Jennifer Schafer

 

So I found out I was pregnant when my little one was probably a year and a half. Just just about a year and a. And he nursed all the way through. He nursed all the way through that pregnancy after his tie got clipped after we worked through, I still kind of had clogged ducks here and there, but I knew how to work through them. I was just kind of following my intuition and following my body, you know, massaging in the shower and and stuff like that really helped. So I dove into my birth work and I find out I'm pregnant. I'm nursing all the way through this pregnancy Me My milk dried up about 20-3 weeks, but he dried. Through so he kept going, never missed a beat. And this is when I started my DUI training. So this is when, you know, I'm pregnant, and I've got a almost 2 year old. And I went to my first doula training and I knew that I didn't want my second labor to be like my first. I knew that I wanted nothing like that in my doula training, I found the language to be able to communicate to my partner, to my doctors, to my midwife. What I wanted was a physiological birth. So my second story is probably gonna shock you. It's complete opposite from the 1st so you knew you wanted to be back right away. I knew that I wanted a V back. Water birth. Hmm. OK, cause I couldn't get the water birth the first time. But in the hospital they wouldn't allow me a water birth because I Failed the first time. Oh, so here I am at my doula training and I'm like, I can do this myself. So I'm going home to my husband, who's in the hotel with our almost 2 year old at the time. And I'm saying, hey, we're gonna do this first by ourselves. We're gonna do this one at home, and he's like, why did, like, what do you mean? Doing this one by ourselves and I'm like, well, I have all the knowledge and tools now and I know what happened the first time. So looking back on my first book. Now I have the knowledge and language and understanding to understand why it was a C-section, you know, failure to progress. I was scared. I was in the hospital. I didn't know at one point. And my first labor I looked from side to side and there was just people everywhere. They had brought everybody that was in the labor and delivery went to my room to watch me in the bathtub so I had a wall of people. This was not in my birth plan, so it's no wonder I wasn't progressing past 77 centimeters because I had an audience. I was scared and I didn't know that the first time. So all of my training while I'm pregnant with my second just really opened my eyes. Like wow, I'm noticing everything that went wrong the first time. I want to do it right the second time. So we ended up getting a water tub. I ended up getting To Do List from my doula training to come. They were about four hours away so they ended up coming down. I had a midwife, but she didn't do home births, so she was kind of just on back up. I guess we knew we were going to be at home in our living room in the child with To Do List. So that's exactly how it came. That's exactly what happened, and it was a beautiful 4 hour labor with just two do list, my husband and our two year old. And I remember he was about to come out, and my husband and two year old almost 2 year old was sitting at the end of the tub and my my son just starts crying. Tears just start coming down his eyes and then the head starts coming out and his ears start coming out. And I tell him that's your baby brother. It's your brother. He's coming and he's just got tears coming down his eyes.

 

00:13:34 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow.

 

00:13:34 Jennifer Schafer

 

And so he comes out beautifully. Uh, we we get cleaned up and everything goes well and then, you know, I'm all. Let's get that first latched. So I lay back on the couch and we're all bundled up and I'm letting him do more of, like, the breast crawl this time. And so I just kind of lay him on. And the cord was still pretty short. So he didn't have a lot of room. He did crawl up and he nursed, and he latched on beautifully. And you know, I told someone in the background. So let's snap a picture of his first latch it, you know.

 

00:14:03 Jacqueline Kincer

 

I love that.

 

00:14:03 Jennifer Schafer

 

It it was so beautiful and it was just everything flowed so perfectly and everything was just amazing and still to this day, that child is still like my miracle child. It just amazes me every day, you know, he we were complete opposite with him. So instead of running off to the pediatrician and saying, hey, is my baby OK? I just. I just watched him as his mother. I just he he had a touch of jaundice. He was nursing great. My 2 year old was still nursing at the time. So we started tandem nursing, he said. I started sharing tandem nursing. I knew that I always wanted to do it. And I'm so glad that I did, because having both of your children right there and then seeing them holding hands and seeing the bond that they have is just unexplainable. It's it's one of my favorite things and my breastfeeding journey ever. It's just the team of nursing and watching their brotherly bond, you know.

 

00:14:59 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Ohh, that's really beautiful and it sounds like. You know your oldest was two at the time and and quite excited to meet the baby brother and all of that. Do you think because of tandem nursing that that helped to avoid some jealousy of, you know, the baby getting more quote UN quote attention because obviously you're having to meet more physiological needs of the baby? On the two year old. So I'm curious how you think that might have played a role beyond just their relationship too and your relationship with each of them?

 

00:15:32 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah, I definitely think that it strengthens their bond a lot of Times Now if the little one is kind of fussy, the big one will say, do you just want your dummies, do you need? Mummies.

 

00:15:43 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Ah.

 

00:15:43 Jennifer Schafer

 

Do you need Mommy? I can get Mommy for you like he still knows that that's in need of of his little brothers and I I think that, like, even watching them fall asleep. That night they would like, rub each others shoulders or rub each other's face before bed. Like siblings. Don't really get that bond. They don't really get, you know, that bond with their mother a lot. And so it's a special bond. I feel like through tandem nursing that. You're nourishing two of these little humans. You're bonding with each of them. They're bonding together. I see that in their relationship now, as three and five year olds, I see that in their playing I see. I see them reaching out to each other and just kind of mentally saying, hey, you OK? You're good. Like I see that connection. The same connection that I saw with them holding hands through a nursing session, you know.

 

00:16:32 Jacqueline Kincer

 

That was so special.

 

00:16:33 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah, I agree. So anyone that has the chance to tend a nurse, I highly, highly recommend it. It's definitely a rewarding process for sure

 

00:16:40 Jacqueline Kincer

 

That's amazing. I love that. I I do think it can be so valuable like you said. And you know there's other benefits too. Like, you know, you're you're nursing throughout your pregnancy. So generally your milk comes in a bit sooner, although it would typically because it's another pregnancy and birth but. You know, if your oldest is nursing, you know immediately postpartum. It brings your milk in faster. All of those amazing things. And a lot of people worry, you know, is there going to be enough milk left for the baby? But if you're starting off with both nursing, you're you're setting that stage of telling your body to make enough milk for two kids and your body will do it. I try to remind people all the time. You know, people have twins, and they can also breastfeed those twins. It's pretty cool. I've had clients.

 

00:17:25 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah.

 

00:17:28 Jacqueline Kincer

 

With triplets as well, and so you know our bodies are capable of some amazing things.

 

00:17:33 Jennifer Schafer

 

Oh, I totally agree. And that actually reminds me I forgot to talk about over producing with my first because back to the clogged ducts and right after the lip tie, I started pumping as soon as I was able to get my hands on an electric pump. And I started pumping so much that I just had so much milk and I was with my baby 24/7, so I had no need for bottles. We tried them here and there just because Dad wanted to get some interaction with baby. But it just got to the point where I was like, in the middle of the night. It's like, I'll just get up. Let me, let me just put him on a boob it it's much easier. So I started my donating. We donated breast milk through the 1st breastfeeding journey. But then the second one came along and as you were saying, putting them both on tells my body to create more supply. So I had enough. So I was over the pump. I was done pumping with my second and I was like, you know, this labor was just the most miraculous thing it could have ever been. And it's so amazing. I'm just not gonna pump. I'm just going to feed on demand with this one. I'm going to make it easy on myself now, you know? Yeah. So I didn't pump at all. Well, I shouldn't say I didn't pump at all. I pumped a little bit with my second only because I had moms reaching back out to me because they knew that I was a donator, and so they were reaching back out saying hey, my baby needs milk. So I remember sitting there one night and I was I dug my pump out of the closet. I dug all the parts out and I sat there on the floor and I pumped a fresh bottle and I literally ran it out to the car because the baby I had no milk.

 

00:19:01 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Oh.

 

00:19:01 Jennifer Schafer

 

So I literally ran a fresh bottle out to her because her mom reached out and she didn't have any milk. So I've done, I've done drops of, you know, a couple 100 ounces of milk. We've really donated through the first one, we donated about 2000 Oz with the first one and then the second one probably closer to just 500 oz. Just kind of on demand. When when local moms needed it so.

 

00:19:23 Jacqueline Kincer

 

And how did you? How did you start that? Like you had this extra milk? Did you post online somewhere like, hey, I have all of this milk or how did that donation process happen?

 

00:19:35 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah. So I donated on human milk for human baby and I found all of my moms there. The first one through the 1st journey, she lived about 30 minutes away. So we met kind of in the middle. And I would just take her like 500 oz. Every time. I got, like, every time my freezer filled up, I would just take, like a bunch. And then the second time around, like I said, it was just moms on demand release. So it was just through, like, Facebook and through, like, local moms who knew me me and just like in local mom groups and stuff, so that was more like for like just on demand, right?

 

00:20:00 Jacqueline Kincer

 

That's amazing. Yeah. And I wonder too, maybe because you had gotten into the birth work world, people kind of knew of you or something too. I've seen that in my community where duos will have babies, and they always end up donating milk because.

 

00:20:21 Jacqueline Kincer

 

They've got clients or other colleagues, clients with babies that need it. So I love that. That takes a big heart to.

 

00:20:27 Jennifer Schafer

 

Do that. Yeah. So fast forwarding on our. For me, we've got both of the boys nursing and nursing wonderfully. They're tandem nursing on demand. I'm not really pumping. So then comes spring of 2021. I go away on my first trip ever away from my kids and I go 16 hours away. And I'm supposed to go for 10 days.

 

00:20:55 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Oh wow

 

00:20:57 Jennifer Schafer

 

I went for one Because I ended up getting there and I got sick. I just. I had like this gut feeling. Like I need to be home with my kids. So they were both doing OK without breastfeeding. They were both to that point now where they were old enough they understood I was going to be away they understood. I was coming back. So I lasted one day. I came home, found out I was pregnant. That's why I was sick.

 

00:21:22 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Ohh.

 

00:21:23 Jennifer Schafer

 

So so I start talking to my boys about being pregnant. You know, a couple weeks and we found out in the spring. And not far after the spring I was trying to remember this morning exactly what it was. It was between spring and summer, right after we found out we were pregnant. That's when my oldest decided. Hey. I'm done. So he decided to lean himself. He was 4 1/2 at the time. And I remember him saying I'm going to save these milkies for the baby. I don't need to get them because I'm a big boy. Mom, let's just save these for the baby. So he saved him for his little brother and the baby. So he weaned himself. I did get a photo of the last time he nursed. I was taking pictures like every single day like this could be the last time. So I have to get a picture of it. So I did and. Yeah, he's good with it. I was good with it. He was good with it. He he knew it was time. Shortly after I did dry up again. And then my little one at the time was still nursing. So he also dry nursed all the way through again. That one was lot more painful to nurse him through the pregnancy. I remember at the end of the pregnancy. It was just like. Razors. It hurts so bad to nurse that one all the way through. And that's that's where the journey takes a turn. I guess we should say. Yeah. And your your youngest at that point is 2, right? So the young oldest is 4 1/2. When we find out we're pregnant, that's when he wins.

 

00:22:59 Jacqueline Kincer

 

And the youngest is 2 1/2 OK.

 

00:23:03 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah.

 

00:23:03 Jacqueline Kincer

 

And do you?

 

00:23:03 Jennifer Schafer

 

Think it was just painful because he's dry nursing or hormones, or a combination. I think the combination I don't remember being that sore the first time around nursing during pregnancy. I think just a combination, you know. Yeah. So that one's nursing and then that takes me into the third labor. Which I don't want the labor to get lost in the story because this is the most beautiful labor I could have ever imagined. I remember in fall of 2021 being about 25 weeks pregnant.

 

00:23:37 Jacqueline Kincer

 

I got.

 

00:23:38 Jennifer Schafer

 

Good. And I remember feeling a shift. My, the whole family got COVID. The kids got it. Everyone got it. We lasted through it. But after that, I remember feeling a shift and I really retreated inward for that pregnancy. And I remember telling my husband. I just want to be in a corner and I want nobody to be around me. I don't want anybody to be here. I don't want to talk to anybody. Just let me be for my pregnancy. I'm telling you for the last whole trimester. I just I felt a shift and so I like we were talking about before the podcast my the birthdays of the kids. So the oldest was born January 5th, 2017. The middle was born January 2nd of 2019. And then the third one was born January 6th of 2022.

 

00:24:31 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow

 

00:24:32 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yes. Yes, I had to write all those down. Yes. So we just celebrate my youngest birthday. He just turns 3, and I'm about to pop any day now, we celebrate the oldest birthday on the 5th. And all I remember is him saying. Mom, you can't have the baby on my birthday. I don't want to share my birthday.

 

00:24:54 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Of course not. That's so funny.

 

00:24:57 Jennifer Schafer

 

So we go to bed the night of his birthday. We celebrate his birthday. We went bowling and we go to bed and my water breaks at 11:55 on his birthday. Wow. So she really held out. The third one was a girl. So my water breaks and so when I went into labor, I knew I knew she was going to come overnight. I knew it was going to be just me and my husband at her birth, my dua, was actually here for about a week before and I I kicked her out. I said I need everybody to go. At this time. I I didn't know the outcome of this labor. This is so hard to talk about. Yeah, so. So I go in the bathroom. I close the door. You know, I'm trying to be quiet. My husband turned some meditation music on. I get in the tub. We had a birth tub ready to go again. And I knew that I wasn't going to use it. It was stored away in the room that the kids were sleeping in. I knew that it just wasn't going to work out like that. So I'm in the bathtub and then I knew it. It was really quick. It was really quick. I worked through contractions. You know, I I did all the labor stuff. And we moved into the living room and she started coming out, and my husband saw foot. And I thought that's not supposed to happen, but somehow, deep down instinctually I knew. Who? That this labor was going to be different. I knew that this pregnancy was different. I knew something was different and so instinctually I knew. I knew from all of my research and my birth work at this point and my birth work, I'm deep in it. I'm deep in my birth work right now. I'm wanting to support other moms. I've went and helped friends. With their latching, I've went and supported other moms at their births, so at this point in my life, I'm really in the birth Rome. So I knew with my training I had to get her out as quick as I could and and I couldn't I she just wasn't coming out. And I remember shifting trying to let gravity. And then she finally came out, but she wasn't breathing. So all of this while the kids are. Sleeping in the next room over.

 

00:27:12 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow.

 

00:27:13 Jennifer Schafer

 

We, you know, obviously we call an ambulance, we go, we do the whole thing, I go, I go to the ER, she comes with me, my husband stays home with the kids. And I remember coming home from the hospital. I get released right away. She has to get flown over to the city. We live in a little rural community, so she gets flown over and I come home and my parents were on their way. So I come home and you know, my little one's still nursing. So I come home. It's early in the morning, and I'm nursing him. And it was at that point that they realized. Hey, mom, your belly is not that big anymore. There and they didn't. They didn't know at this point. We still didn't really know what what was going on. So my parents get here and we go to the hospital with with Amber and she passed away at 36 hours and we. It's another one of those things that I didn't know at the time, but I know now, so I know now that when I got COVID in August, when I was 25 weeks pregnant, I know that I got Placenta. Titus. I believe. I'm not sure how to pronounce it. It's the actual only virus that can affect the placenta, and so I know now that that's what happened. And I remember in the hospital and the Nikki was her it it didn't even occur to me. I was in such shock that I just gave birth and then lost my child. Remember, asking the nurses do I need a pump? Should I be pumping right now? I'm just nursing my 3 year old. Should I be pumping for her. And they were like, well, you you can. You'll have milk come in you. No. So I started pumping like a mad woman. I started. I knew it was gonna possibly cause an oversupply, but I was hoping that because I was still nursing my 3 year old that my body would kind of regulate itself. I I don't know. I don't know what mine said I was in at the time. I just remember thinking, I have to pump because I have to still feel. Some sense of normalcy here, so I can't even begin to explain. Being a postpartum mom without your baby. I can't even begin to explain the hurt behind it and that coming from the breastfeeding background that I come from like ohh, I'm just gonna breastfeed. It's just what I do. I nurse both of my babies all the way through. And now I don't have a baby to nurse. And I'm supposed to be breastfeeding and I don't have this baby to nurse. So that's when I went on to donate 5000 oz. And it turned out one of the babies I started donating to lost his mother during Labor. Ohh wow. It's like meant to be. Yeah. Now, moving on, I'm thankful that that I donated. I'm thankful that I pumped. I'm not pumping anymore. So right now I'm six months postpartum. And I'm not pumping anymore, and I'm very thankful to not be attached to a pump. I'm, I'm.

 

00:30:06 Jacqueline Kincer

 

I bet.

 

00:30:07 Jennifer Schafer

 

So thankful I still am nursing my he's 3 1/2 now, so he's about to be 4 in January. He's still nursing he's, I guess, regulated. My supplies regulated enough that I started to notice. A decrease in my cycle returned this time around and so that's when I kind of made the decision to stop pumping. I wasn't quite pumping enough that it was. You know what? Maybe like 100 oz. Every two weeks. You know, it just really wasn't enough to have to keep my schedule so strict and schedule so tied down to remember to pump, right. I didn't like if if I missed her pumping, I'd be engorged. So I've come this far. It's been 6 years. Almost. I'm ready to be not attached to a pump. So that's where we're at today.

 

00:30:53 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow. You know, I it's OK if you don't feel like talking about this, but you know, being able to nurse your 3 year olds throughout this time of loss, was that a comfort to you that even though you couldn't nurse your newborn and and have her, you know, in that postpartum experience, is there something about being able to nurse another child that was helpful for you? Yeah, I think it was very comforting looking back now that anytime.

 

00:31:24 Jennifer Schafer

 

He wanted to nurse. I was right there. Like, Yep, let's do it. In fact, I think I was asking him, hey, do you wanna do you wanna do a nurse? Do you wanna do you want some gummies and some milkies? Yeah. Trying to coax them in just to have that little bond, you know? Yeah. No.

 

00:31:34 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Yes.

 

00:31:39 Jennifer Schafer

 

When you have a loss like we did you, I love my kids to be on. I love my boys, but it makes you realize how much you love them. And it it really this one really made me realize that they grow up so fast. I know we hear it all the time. It's so cliche. They grow up fast, enjoy it while they're young. So I I know that my youngest is about to be done nursing. I can feel it. He his sessions are getting few and far between. You know he's falling asleep at night. Right, not on the milkies. So where he usually does fall asleep on the milkies, so I know he's winning. So I'm I'm kind of in that transition right now where I'm mentally preparing for even the next three to six months. I could be not nursing at all. I could be not producing at all. And so I'm in this transition right now of trying to be OK with that. And it's really hard coming from the loss that so quick just six months postpartum that that's so. That's far down. That's just that's that's very new postpartum. And then to already have to be processing the end of my six year breastfeeding journey that I thought was gonna last. A lot longer. It's. I'm in this just my game right now of how do you feel? Because part of me wants to get my body back. You know, I'm. I'm back at the gym. I'm a very active person. So I, but it's like I'm ready to get my body back. But am I, like, am I gonna be OK without that connection? You know what? I mean so.

 

00:33:06 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Yeah.

 

00:33:07 Jennifer Schafer

 

That's kind of where I'm at right now. The little in between.

 

00:33:11 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow. Yeah, that makes sense because I feel like there's just like you said, this connection and and you've got all of these hormones and you know, you are still newly postpartum. I know in the United States, that's typically not culturally seen that way, but I, you and I know from birth work it.

 

00:33:30 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yes.

 

00:33:30 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Absolutely is still really new postpartum, and there's just so much there and that connection that you've built over these years means so much to you. So yeah, I I think it's important for parents to know, like when. You go through weaning, even if it's, you know, completely child LED and you let them just nurse until they're done. There is still this bittersweet aspect of it. It's not like most moms out there like finally, they're done like, no. Like you said, you're snapping those photos of of the older one any day could be the last day down. You want to capture that.

 

00:33:59 Jennifer Schafer

 

Right.

 

00:34:07 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Memory and you know when you've nursed her this song, I think you truly have created so many special memories with your children over these years. Makes sense.

 

00:34:15 Jennifer Schafer

 

Yeah, I was just taking pictures while one was nursing. And then the older one was next to me with his iPad and showed me his games and I just snapped photos 2 days ago of their little feet and twined. They were playing Footsie together, while once nursing and once playing, and so I caught a little picture of it and then their hands were up against next to each other, even though ones.

 

00:34:35 Jennifer Schafer

 

On nursing, he's still right there on the other side, you know, interacting.

 

00:34:38 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Alright.

 

00:34:39 Jennifer Schafer

 

So I was taking little pictures of that, just trying to like remember these these memories before. I'm not not breastfeeding anymore.

 

00:34:47 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Gosh, so now you're not pumping anymore at all, right? Because you're just like, this is so.

 

00:34:54 Jennifer Schafer

 

I'm done with the pump. I have put her up in the closet. I still have her on back up.

 

00:34:55 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Yes.

 

00:34:59 Jennifer Schafer

 

Just in case the mom calls, but my little one has been saying, like, he'll switch in between a nursing session and say I need the other one because there's no milk in this one anymore. So. And I'm like, it's that quick, huh? So I I think I'm starting my body starting to also notice that he's not needing as much. Right. So I I know he's close. I'm just thankful that I it's not abrupt. I'm thankful that I have this time to process, especially being newly postpartum. I'm able to process everything. And you know, I have milk from the first one. I have milk from the second one. And I kept some of Amber's milk, too. I did pump a little bit of colostrum for her, and I kept that bag and I put her name on it and my husband got me a little Locket that I can make a little like breast milk keeps. Like so, I'm gonna put all three of those together, and then I'm gonna make a little breast milk keepsake for me so I can have that as a remembrance of my journey.

 

00:35:53 Jacqueline Kincer

 

That's amazing. I love that breast milk keepsakes are really cool. There's there's kind of a lot of different options these days, but yeah, it's, you know, there's so many people will

do, you know, placenta prints or thing, right. You know, you kind of do some keepsakes for the birth, but you can do breastfeeding keepsakes too. And I think that's such a special way for you to remember.

 

00:36:13 Jennifer Schafer

 

All of your journeys. I love that you've kept milk from all of your babies. Yeah, I know. Obviously it's not good anymore. It's almost six years old, but I have it, and it's gonna go into. A little Locket I was just. Just waiting for the right time when I knew it was time to merge them. All you know. Yeah. So, yeah, that's my story. And that's my journey. And I hope it can be relatable to somebody. And if anybody ever needs to chat, I'm not really doing birth work anymore. But I'm always, always, always an open ear to anyone who's at a loss or anyone. Who just needs an? Here or it just needs to say how do you get through this? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Yes, there's a light. It's hard, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, I can't. I can't even imagine being postpartum and not nursing at all. Like you said, did did my middle one nursing after the loss helped me? Yes, absolutely. And if I didn't have? That if I wasn't breastfeeding at all after my loss, I think it would have been quite a bit harder to process. You know, it would have just been a relationship with the pump at that point, you know, and and that I can't even imagine. So I'm always an open ear. If anybody needs to just have a virtual hug.

 

00:37:25 Jacqueline Kincer

 

I love that. Yes, thank you for volunteering that because you you will be a connection for somebody that needs you and you know just everything you've you've gone through, you know, persevering through, you know, this last birth experience and all of that.

 

00:37:40 Jennifer Schafer

 

What did you what were the things that you found were most helpful to you beyond breastfeeding to get through that and be in the place that you are now six months postpartum? Absolutely. My husband, my husband, 100%. I don't even know how I could have gotten through to the point where I am now without him. He's always there for me to talk to. I think having an outlet to just get your feelings out immediately after the loss. It's like I went through all the stages, you know, I was really sad and then I was really angry. And then I was sad again, and then I get mad again and I go through all my stages of grieving, but just having having that support, just having someone there to receive it and just to see you and honor you and say I'm here with you, you know, and I'm. Holding you so. That's why ioffer my virtual support to anybody who doesn't have that and who. Might need it.

 

00:38:31 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Wow, that's really beautiful. You've I feel like you've come so far in a really short period of time with your grief and for anyone who's listening. Like don't feel like you need to follow Jennifer's timeline. It's going to be different for everybody, especially I think too, if you lost a baby that you know, you don't have any other breastfeeding relationship going on, I I could. Absolutely. See how that could be harder. So thank you for offering your support. Jennifer, thank you for sharing your story. Free. I think it's powerful from beginning to end, quite honestly, and I love that you kept going through all of these different challenges like things could have gone a totally different direction for you at so many points with each of your children. And I just think it's really inspiring that things have turned out the way they did. And I think that's a testament to. Really just your your drive and your certainty like you said at the very beginning, like before, you had your first child, you just knew you were going to breastfeed, and I'd find that that is the common thread. That I see for. For moms that overcome the hardest of challenges is that they just knew they were going to breastfeed. There was never a doubt or question in their mind, and that's not to say that if you have doubts or questions that you won't, it won't work out. But I just hear people say it. They had this conviction, they just knew and you just knew so. That's incredible. I I love your stories. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah.

 

00:39:59 Jennifer Schafer

 

Thank you so much for having me.

 

00:40:05 Jacqueline Kincer

 

Did you know? Most moms stop breastfeeding in the first month postpartum. I believe, succeeding at breastfeeding means having the right mindset. In fact, studies show that the number one factor that determines breastfeeding success is commitment, which is why I've created my incredible audio download of breastfeeding affirmations. Where I give you actionable mantras so you can breastfeed your baby with confidence and Peace of Mind and best of all, it's free to get access to this audio and PDF. Simply visit holisticlactation.com/mantras and you can get started right now.

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